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#15008 - 06/09/01 03:09 PM Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
I am looking for other message board for piano teachers.

While this one is great, it is heavily into PA (which of course it should be because it's sponsored by them) and I'm looking for a little more input from teachers who are willing to use other methods.

Does anyone know of any other message boards. I've used the Brent Hugh one, but since it moved, not many post on it.

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#15009 - 06/09/01 03:19 PM Re: Any other message board
Eric Offline
Star Member

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 2325
Loc: New York, NY
I know there are other message boards out there, although I don't have any of the addresses handy. You might check in the archives under "Links to other Helpful Sites."

I think there's such a diverse group of teachers at this site that there is bound to be some who use the method(s) you use. And even if many of us currently use Piano Adventures for the bulk of our core material, many of us have a wealth of experience teaching from other methods in prior years. I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I know John Schaum inside and out!

So I suggest giving this site a try. You'll be surprised at how knowledgable the folks here are.

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#15010 - 06/09/01 03:31 PM Re: Any other message board
John Offline
Star Member

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 2448
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I know of:
http://www.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/piano-teachers
http://www.dunhammusic.com/forumhome.htm

PS - I use Hal Leonard (almost) exclusively.
Mum's the word!

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: John Bisceglia ]

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#15011 - 06/09/01 03:39 PM Re: Any other message board
John Offline
Star Member

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 2448
Loc: Bellingham, WA
(with a nod to Master Lisa)

Go to
http://www.google.com

and search for 'Piano teacher', Piano teacher forum' , etc... or similar phrases; I found these by doing the same thing.

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#15012 - 06/09/01 08:21 PM Re: Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
I know there's tons to learn from the people here and I do ready many of the posts. Many of the topics discussed on this board don't have anything to do with the PA books and I read all of those with interest.

Thanks for the responses and if anyone else knows of more boards please let me know.

As far as being ashamed for knowing Schaum, it's how I started to play at 3 and I'm proud that's how I learned, it's still one of the best selling method books around so I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of!

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#15013 - 06/09/01 08:38 PM Re: Any other message board
Eric Offline
Star Member

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 2325
Loc: New York, NY
I was being facetious. Everyone on this board knows I HAVE no shame! ;\)

What's amusing is the extent to which I know Schaum. All my friends know, for example, that if it's very cold when stepping outside, I sometimes sing

"Br-rr-rr-rr-rr It's Cold,
Br-rr-rr-rr-rr It's Cold,
Br-rr-rr-rr-rr, Brr-rr-rr-rr-rr, Br-rr-rr-rr-rr, It's Cold!!"

I have the entire series memorized including the lyrics, which I find to be the most charming part of the method. From the politically incorrect...

"Wun Long Pan, the famous Chinese Detective"

To the bizarre...

"When you touch a hot steam iron
You let go as quickly as you can.
'Cause you'd surely burn your fingers,
And they'd be as brown as a pecan."

That pecan line always makes me laugh. I grew up in Schaum just like you did, and so many fellow musicians who are good readers remember studying out of that course; it's clearly gotten good results over the years.

I still use pieces like the Tarantella, Dangerous Journey, Norwegian Concerto, and Riding on a Mule as solos.

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: Eric ]

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#15014 - 06/09/01 08:42 PM Re: Any other message board
Eric Offline
Star Member

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 2325
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Bisceglia:
PS - I use Hal Leonard (almost) exclusively. Mum's the word!


John, I really like the little I know of Hal Leonard. I am not that well-acquainted with the whole series, but look forward to checking it out. Publishing-wise, is it pre-PA or post-PA? What I've seen seems very similar in terms of using a comprehensive combined approach pedagogically.

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: Eric ]

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#15015 - 06/09/01 08:58 PM Re: Any other message board
Janice Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 565
Loc: Newalla, Oklahoma, USA
I had both Schaum and John Thompson when I was young and I think they had alot to offer. I still use Schaum in some cases. I also use the higher levels of John Thompson but it depends on the student. I think both of them are harder than PA but some of the students today have to have something simple to get started. I like Hal Leonard but there seem to be some gaps in the beginning level. One reason I tend to stay with Faber is because it is so easily obtained through the mail and I live so far from a good music store. Right now the music stores I do go to say that Faber is out in front so they must be doing something right. I switch around so I don't get stale and too comfortable in teaching the same thing to everyone.

If anyone has suggestions about good mail order for music, please tell me. I know--it's in the Archieves but you know how I feel about the Archieves. It's lonely there ;\) \:D

tomuch2do, my daughter lives in Brookfield, Wisconsin. Love your state.

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: JVee ]

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#15016 - 06/09/01 09:07 PM Re: Any other message board
John Offline
Star Member

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 2448
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I gotta plug my ol' job in MI. The sheet music manager is as sweet as you'll ever find; she also knows both Nancy & Randall, and we really pushed their method when it first came out (local heros!).

Call 1-800-968-5464, or place orders at:

sales@kingskeyboard.com

Their site is:
http://www.kingskeyboard.com

10% off for teachers, and no tax.

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#15017 - 06/09/01 09:41 PM Re: Any other message board
John Offline
Star Member

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 2448
Loc: Bellingham, WA
For some options I'd recommend supplementing Faber with HL Solos books, if you want music ONLY w/o the extra text of a lesson book.

Book 1 is nice is you want to postpone using the 5th finger until students have developed it well with harmonic 5ths, clusters, etc.
Also, the Solos Book 1 has a nice improv section in a piece, with some great "boy" pieces!

Here are the basic things to note when combining:

Book 1 - quarter & half rest introduced early, 2nds/3rds only, Bass F-Treble G, p through f.

Book 2 - still quarters, 2nds-5ths, Bass C-Treble D, accidentals, pp through ff, cres/decres., staccato/legato.

Book 3 - Eighths/dotted eighth, 6ths, Low G-High C, basic 5-finger patterns, chords & chord symbols.

Book 4 - Eighth rest & triplet, melodic 7ths & octaves, Primary triads, I-IV-I-V7-I, major scale.

Book 5 - 16ths, pieces like Rebikov's The Bear, Burgmuller's Innocence & Arabesque, Maykapar's Scherzino.

I gotta mention that I only use the Lesson & Solo books now with their CD's; sometimes their Workbooks, but only for young children. I just LIKE the music, and the CD's are EXCELLENT. With 4 different composer's, there's a variety I enjoy. The Piano Practice Games books offer some neat ideas, but (as you know Eric!) I'm creating ALL of my own materials in ear training/solfege, improv, composition, theory, etc. I can say that their Technique books were a disappointment. Some GREAT advice for the student on how to use the body, but the music is much weaker than the Lesson & Solo books.

They've recently changed their price; now you get the Lesson book WITH the CD for $7.95. YOU CAN'T BEAT THAT ANYWHERE!

To balance this on a Faber site, I do use their Artistry books now, finding them to be the best on the market in music and presentation (Esp. levels 2B on up!)

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#15018 - 06/09/01 09:58 PM Re: Any other message board
OKMusician Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Oklahoma
I've used the HL books some over the past few years. I attended a couple of their workshops a few summers ago and tried them out. I, like JVee, thought there were gaps that I don't find in PA. You can fill the gaps with supplements though. j

I have a brother and sister now who had the HL Lesson books 1-3 from an older sister. I've used the PA Performance, Technique, and Theory books along with the HL Lesson books and they've worked very well. Book 1 with PA Primer, 2 with Lev 1 and 3 with 2A. The older child is in book 3 now and when he finishes I'll put him into the 2B Lesson book and he'll be completely in PA. They have correlated pretty well.

As for when HL came out, it was a little after PA I believe. I was using some PA when I went to the HL workshops, but they hadn't split the levels (A & B) or done the revisions yet.
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#15019 - 06/10/01 04:08 AM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
tomuch2do:

I'll list some of the message boards I have found, but mostly they are a waste of the wear and tear on your mouse to even click on the links:


So you can check around but I don't think you'll find anything nearly as worthwhile as this wonderful site. It has soooo many great features (in no particular order):
  • The posts are easy to access and you don't have to go to a separate page for each answer. Saves wear and tear on your mouse and your nerves.
  • You don't have to display your e-mail address with your post.
  • You can register under more than one Login name (I'm not suggesting this but just saying that some have used this feature).
  • THERE ARE NO ADVERTISEMENTS or POP-UP BANNERS!!! -- I really like this.
  • You can add images. One of my favorite features which Jason seems to think fits under the category of "crap." I, and many others, disagree but try to behave on Jason's threads.
  • Each registered member (or login name) has a profile page where they can list their interests, location, home page, and even attach an image. (Be sure to check out my portrait. \:D )
  • You can send any member a Private Message and can communicate with members without having to divulge your e-mail address and you get to use smilies and images. However, the censorship feature is activated for Private Messages, too. Well, you can't really send any member a Private Message -- if a member puts you on their Ignore List you are not permitted to communicate with them in this way. So far as I know, I'm only on one member's Ignore List but, if you decide to stick around, you can add me to yours if it strikes your fancy. I won't mind too much. \:\( \:\(
  • The little lightbulbs light up to show you which topics have been posted to since your last visit.
  • You can start a Topic or an Off-Topic and you're almost sure to get a response from somebody or other. It may not be related to the Topic you started, but rarely will your thread be ignored. If it is, you can simply use the thread to have a nice chat with yourself.
  • The smilies (or if you prefer, smileys)-- which are now called Instant Graemlins -- add so much and help convey the tone of what the poster is trying to get across to the other members. \:\)
  • You can bold or italicize or a combination of the two.
  • If you start a Topic you can be sent e-mail notification when you get a response so you don't have to stayed glued to your computer screen.
  • The site keeps track of the number of posts you have made. While this initially irked Lisa, it does help give others a clue as to how often they can expect a comment from another member. Of course, when members have more than one registered name and # then it can be misleading.
  • You can stroll through the Archives and read of past fun \:D and past horrors. The Archives are useful if you are new or want to find some reference you can't quite remember. It also helps to be able to refer someone there when you don't want to post on the same question that has been covered well in the past.
  • This forum has such pretty colors. They've improved recently but have always been relatively easy to read without lots of glaring white or dark murky colors that can cause eye strain. By alternating the background colors of the posts, it is easy to distinguish one post from another.
  • Last (not really but my fingers are tired) but not least, even though this site is sponsored by the Fabers and many people who post here are devoted to the method, you can use any method you like and post that you do without fear of being locked in a dungeon. Other members may disagree with your choice but the Powers That Be will never take offense and retaliate.


It's your decision and you are welcome if you decide to stay. But be advised, you'd better not be unkind to Eric or Lisa or JVee since that will upset me (and many others) and as John and Josh have pointed out more than once, I can be very cruel. Just thought I should let you know this up front. ;\)

[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Rhapsody ]
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15020 - 06/10/01 05:52 AM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
One more thing (and this one is very good)
  • YOU CAN EDIT YOUR POSTS!
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15021 - 06/10/01 06:43 AM Re: Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
I'm sorry if many of you have taken my desire to find other message boards as a "cut" to this board. Of all the boards I've been to, this by far has the best content for lots of different subjects and I will continue to read them.

What I am looking for is another board that will help me with the method that I am using, helping me to get better with it. I tried the PA with my students and the response was very cold (that doesn't mean I will not try it again). So I am looking for encouragement and help in the road that I am traveling, which just doesn't happen to be the PA board.

Though my students did respond to the PA books pre-time, chordtime etc. for supplemental books, more than any other, so we are using those.

I know this board is sponsored by PA and we are blessed that they did this, I just don't think I'm going to get the guidance I'm looking for in my method since it's not PA, on this board.

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#15022 - 06/10/01 07:20 AM Re: Any other message board
Eric Offline
Star Member

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 2325
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by tomuch2do:

I just don't think I'm going to get the guidance I'm looking for in my method since it's not PA, on this board.


Tell ya what, why don't you give this a try: Under TEACHING ISSUES, start a new topic that states the name of your method. In your post, make it clear that you don't want to discuss your method's merits and shortcomings, and you don't want to compare it to PA ~ and then, in the positive, state what you DO want to hear. For example:

GLOVER TEACHERS

Hi. I teach out of Glover and have found it to be highly successful. Without getting into a discussion of its faults or comparing it to other methods, I would really like to hear from other Glover Teachers who have teaching ideas that would work in that series. Thanks for the help.

I suspect you'll meet many like-minded teachers. Hope you give it a try!

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#15023 - 06/10/01 09:36 AM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
I'll overcome my extreme timidity and fear of speaking up and just ask plainly: What method do you use that you are so afraid of being criticized for? You did mention in one post that you use Music for Little Mozarts with a few young students but you said in another post that you have about 50 students. What do you use with most of them?
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15024 - 06/10/01 10:48 AM Re: Any other message board
OKMusician Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Oklahoma
tomuch2do, many of us, even if we use PA for the most part now (and not all of us do, even frequent posters), have used other methods in the past or continue to use them in addition to PA. Is that a run-on sentence or what???? Most of us would be glad to help you and give you suggestions of things that worked for us while using those methods. There are a few die-hards who will try to convice you to "convert", but just ignore them if you're not interested!!

I find that most of the teachers who post on the board are genuinely interested in helping one another in the midst of all the silliness. Lots of us have very different methods of teaching, beliefs, lifestyles, etc., but we all have a common goal of turning students on to music and piano. So be brave, step out, we won't bite!!! (maybe some of us will growl a little, but nothing serious)


[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: OKMusician ]
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#15025 - 06/10/01 01:10 PM Re: Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
I teach almost exclusively Alfred. I have been through several of their seminars and have talk at length with E.L. Lancaster and his wife Gail.

My young students who are unable to read work through at least the first 2-3 levels of Music for Little Mozarts.

My beginning students who are third grade and under begin in Prep Course. And my others begin with Piano Library 1A. All my teenagers and adults work through the adult series.

I use the majority of their supplemental books as well. My Piano Library students have Ear Training, sight reading, theory, notespelling and composition books to help with the reading of notes.

I also have each student purchase a music writing book and they are to write their own songs, which helps them with note recognition.

I am in no way ashamed of the method I use. I have 46 students right now and am beginning to teach group lessons to another 35 with the beginning of the summer.

All have been working in the Alfred series and all the parents are thrilled and the majority of the kids practice.

No method is going to make a kid practice that just doesn't want to learn to play the piano.

I do use the PA supplemental books as additional music for the kids, I encourage them to use them, the songs are fun and easy to learn and the kids love having more they can play in front of others.

I feel comfortable teaching with Alfred, that gets passed onto my students which makes them comfortable, then, god-willing, makes them into better piano players.

I still maintain though, it's the teacher and students that makes a piano player, not the method!

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#15026 - 06/10/01 01:47 PM Re: Any other message board
OKMusician Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Oklahoma
tomuch2do, I don't think you have to apologize for using Alfred. I used it for over 10 years almost exclusively and my students were very successful. I still use lots of their supplements and tons of their sheet music. They have some very good composers in their house! I still have some of my kids in Alfred if their older brothers or sisters used it and they already have the books or if they come from another teacher already using them.

I use MFLM with my 4-5 year olds and had started putting nearly everyone in the Prep books except for 12 & up while I was still using it a lot. I feel the music is a little more fun and we'd just move through them at a faster pace. I still use Level 6 after my kids finish PA Level 5 until the Fabers come out with theirs. I have also used the Alfred Adult with great success over the years.

I was slow to change to PA because I also like Alfred, but it just gradually started winning me over. There were little things I noticed about the books and the students who were in them that encouraged me to use them more and more. I had used the Pretime-Bigtime supplements for quite some time too.

I'm glad you've decided to stick around. Don't let the PA I'S scare you off--they aren't cruel, just dedicated believers!!!


[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: OKMusician ]
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#15027 - 06/10/01 02:06 PM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
ToMuch2Do,

Whew! I was afraid you might be using only Mayron Cole or The Pointer Method and then I would have really had to object. :p :P

But unlike many of the members of this board, I like Alfred, use it and think the a lot of the music is pretty good. I also use PA & Noona, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses. I think Alfred is better at teaching coordination between the hands at an earlier level than either PA or Noona but that both PA and Noona are a little better at helping the student move around the keyboard earlier. It's a matter of what skills the authors think should come first.

The Alfred authors believe that all the notes within the 5-finger position (they begin with C-position) and intervals up to a fifth should be learned before having the student move to the next position (for them it's G-position). They feel that this gives the student a sense of security. Some criticize that they become too locked in one position and then have trouble moving out of it. I think that is much more a problem with Bastien than Alfred.

Do you use always use the Recital books? I like those because they have challenging pieces that are well within reach of most students but do take more effort. One of my criticisms of the PA and Noona is that they don't offer enough of these reasonable challenges early enough and students can have such an easy time with the pieces that when (and this has to happen eventually) they get to pieces that require more effort on their part, they aren't really prepared because they had begun to think it was always going to be so easy. Some students may be happier in the beginning with most of their music being easy, but some may feel that it simply isn't stimulating enough even though they are enjoying the music.

Alfred has so many books at the first 4 levels that you simply can't use them all. They say that their Lesson, Theory and Recital books are the 3 essential ones, but the theory is explained well enough in the Lesson book most of the time that if I had to limit the books to 3 I would replace the theory with the Technic Book. Alfred's Technic Books really aid in coordination between the hands and help prepare the student for more difficult music ahead. The PA Technique & Artistry Books are better at teaching artistry and expression since that is where their emphasis lies. They are very different from one another and I like to use both.

The last time I asked my favorite music dealer, Patti Music, Alfred is still the largest selling method in the world. This is an indication that it must be doing something right. Of course, in many areas of this country, Piano Adventures is catching up. \:D I think Bastien may still actually be second, but that simply has to change soon.
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15028 - 06/10/01 03:20 PM Re: Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
My Piano Library kids all have up to 10 books (of course I don't assigned something out of each book every week). We do lots of flashcards and many drills for learning note names etc. I warn my parents right from the start that there will be 10 books that will be needed within the first 4 months, but that then the books will last a year.

I love their Ear Training and Sight Reading books, those were things I was not trained in when I was learning.

Yes, I use the recital books and the fun books. The kids have really taken a liking to the solo hits as well.

The technic books is wonderful and the repetition of using the groups over for a few weeks builds the confidence a few of my students seem to need.

I include the notespeller and composition books, because nothing teaches note reading like actually having to right a song on the grand staff. We all learned to spell words by taking spelling tests, to me the theory is the same.

I appreciate the support. I have been blasted by some on this board in the past (on another board) for using Alfred and had even been accused by one teacher (who also posts on this board)of not knowing what I was doing because I used Alfred, how could I subject my students to that kind of piano playing?

I think you guys are great and I have gotten much out of a lot of the conversations, I love the spirit everyone has here. This was never about not feeling welcome, I do feel welcome, I just wanted questions about using Alfred answered, I didn't want to be accused of not caring about my students because I don't us PA as my methods.

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#15029 - 06/10/01 03:32 PM Re: Any other message board
Jason Offline
Star Member

Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2019
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Nobody should worry about what method they use. Besides, I'm of the opinion that at a fundamental level, Alfred, PA, Hal Leonard, Bastien, Glover, and others are all pretty much the same. Choice in method selection is an illusion, there are many pedagogical issues on which no choice is available.

What if I want a method that uses eighths and quarters instead of quarters and halves at the beginning? Peanuts is the only one I've found. (Well, Cole does, but it's pretty much a group only thing.)

What if I want a method that introduces counting with Tah and Ti and stays with it through level 5. No luck there.

What if I want a method that's based on jazz rep. Popular rep. Classical rep. Nope.

What if I want a method with no finger numbers so I can do it my own way? Nope.

What if I want a loose leaf method that I can hand out to a student on a week to week basis. No luck there. (okay, I could cut pages out of the book, but there's writing on both sides of each page - what if I don't want to give out both?)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)


www.pianoped.com

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#15030 - 06/10/01 04:18 PM Re: Any other message board
Vivace' Offline
Star Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1717
Loc: USA
Keep in mind that the best teachers will tailor their teaching to you or your child's individual needs, rather than being wedded in all respects to a single approach.
Seymour Bernstein
;\)

[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Vivace ]
_________________________
Then let us all do what is right, strive with all our might toward the unattainable, develop as fully as we can the gifts God has given us,and never stop learning." ~ Ludwig van Beethoven

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#15031 - 06/10/01 04:49 PM Re: Any other message board
Lisa Kalmar Online   content
Star Member

Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 4277
Loc: KC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jason:
What if I want a loose leaf method that I can hand out to a student on a week to week basis. No luck there. (okay, I could cut pages out of the book, but there's writing on both sides of each page - what if I don't want to give out both?)


It simply pains Dr. Kalmar to tell Jason otherwise :rolleyes: ;\) but you are incorrect, not to mention All Wet, on this point. (Well, actually on a few others too but I'm overwhelmed with the Flood of a Lifetime here so I'll just let it go for the meantime... \:D ) The Mayron Cole method is indeed loose leaf and pages are indeedy handed out on a lesson by lesson basis. If you have any other questions, direct them to Shelly (sdps) who is also an internationally certified instructor in addition to myself. I'd prefer she be the one here most closely associated with it.....

Lisa, wishing she could see Jason's face when he surveys the method, Kalmar :p

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#15032 - 06/10/01 05:01 PM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
 Quote:
Originally posted by Lisa Kalmar:
The Mayron Cole method is indeed loose leaf and pages are indeedy handed out on a lesson by lesson basis. If you have any other questions, direct them to Shelly (sdps) who is also an internationally certified instructor in addition to myself. I'd prefer she be the one here most closely associated with it.....

Lisa, wishing she could see Jason's face when he surveys the method, Kalmar :p


Lisa,

You continue to be full of cerprises. You are (and can actually get) internationally certified in that method?!? I, too, would love to see Jason's face. You should have seen mine.


[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Rhapsody ]
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15033 - 06/10/01 05:18 PM Re: Any other message board
Vivace' Offline
Star Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1717
Loc: USA
:rolleyes: Internationally Certified to do what? and by whom? Mayron Cole?
_________________________
Then let us all do what is right, strive with all our might toward the unattainable, develop as fully as we can the gifts God has given us,and never stop learning." ~ Ludwig van Beethoven

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#15034 - 06/10/01 05:48 PM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
Jason,

The Peanuts Course is one of the few I haven't seen. I started to order it a couple of years ago, but don't remember why I didn't. Any points of interest?

There is actually a method available without finger numbers -- Belwin Piano Method (Books 1-5) by June Weybright. She had another slightly older method also without finger numbers (Course for Pianists - Books 1-6), but it is mostly out-of-print.

John W. Schaum "POP" Piano Course was designed for junior-high and older. It became unavailable about 2 years ago. There is still Rachel Beatty Kahl's Popular Method which uses strictly music from Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals, but I seriously doubt anyone uses it as their core method.

Donald Beattie actually calls his books BEETHOVEN METHOD for Pianists but this is even less a method than Kahl's. The first piece is (you guessed it) "Ode to Joy" and at least the rhythm is correct. The second piece is "German Dance if F Major" arranged by Beattie but it has full chords and eighth notes. I doubt that even Beethoven could have learned with only that.

Bert Konowitz's Jazz/Rock Course is subtitled "A Complete Approach to Playing on Both Acoustic and Electronic Keyboards" but is really designed to be used with the Alfred Basic Piano Library since it doesn't teach fundamental theory or note reading.

N. Jane Tan's books begin with Ta and Ti but don't go to Level 5 and aren't really a method either.

I'm not searching for the perfect method but really enjoy what method creators think that would be. Maybe we should all put our little agreeable heads together and create the ultimate, perfect method -- one that would work best for every student and every teacher. I wouldn't want to be the editor. I may be crazy, but I'm not that stupid. ;\)

[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Rhapsody ]
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15035 - 06/10/01 06:18 PM Re: Any other message board
Jason Offline
Star Member

Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2019
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Lisa,

I am aware of the Mayron Cole method, and it also begins with eighths and quarters if I'm not mistaken, but I always thought it was geared for use in group lessons and not for private. Am I wrong? Also...I believe it's only available directly from the publisher, and I don't recall ever seeing it at any conventions or workshops.

I'd love to survey the method, but I don't want to have to buy it to do so. If I remember, it's a rather expensive investment.

Regarding my comments, I didn't mean to sound like the things I want don't exist, I know many of them do. It's just that I don't have much *choice* in the matter. It would really help if the non-mainstream methods would do more to get their stuff out there.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Lisa Kalmar:
It simply pains Dr. Kalmar to tell Jason otherwise :rolleyes: ;\) but you are incorrect, not to mention All Wet, on this point. (Well, actually on a few others too but I'm overwhelmed with the Flood of a Lifetime here so I'll just let it go for the meantime... \:D ) The Mayron Cole method is indeed loose leaf and pages are indeedy handed out on a lesson by lesson basis. If you have any other questions, direct them to Shelly (sdps) who is also an internationally certified instructor in addition to myself. I'd prefer she be the one here most closely associated with it.....

Lisa, wishing she could see Jason's face when he surveys the method, Kalmar :p
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)


www.pianoped.com

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#15036 - 06/10/01 06:24 PM Re: Any other message board
Jason Offline
Star Member

Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2019
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Rhapsody,

You're quite right that many other methods exist, but the publishers and/or authors for some reason aren't doing much to push their product.

I have to admit that one of the reasons I use FJH stuff so much is that they send PILES of samples to the director of our program. We just got a complete set of the new Celebration stuff a couple weeks ago and another box full of solos and a couple of the newer method books (level 5 or 3 pop rep if I remember correctly.) I also get stuff in the mail from Alfred from time to time. Do I ever hear from Schaum, Belwin, or anyone else? Do they have booths or showcases at the conventions? No!

And local music stores don't even carry most of this stuff. I can't afford to buy things sight unseen just to keep current, these publishers need to do more.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)


www.pianoped.com

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#15037 - 06/10/01 07:35 PM Re: Any other message board
Lisa Kalmar Online   content
Star Member

Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 4277
Loc: KC
Jason,

So do you mean you're looking for all of the items you mentioned in one method? Interesting!

Mayron markets her method for group teaching, and many "Cole" teachers also claim to use it successfully in private lessons. I actually used the highest level with a private teen student one time. \:o (There's some cute ideas for that age group.) I wish I'd've known when I moved here you would have liked to see it. I threw all of my teaching copies away when we moved to Texas cuz I didn't feel it worth the cost of United moving it with the household. If you're really nice to Shelly, maybe she'll part with her copies since you'll soon be a Texan too. Last I heard she'd found a unique use for them.

Rhapsody,

Since Mayron is a typical larger-than-life Texan, I took liberties to add "international" to the certified category. It's just the kind of flair she approves of. Regarding certification, anyone who takes her training comes out certified. The best part of her training is taking the Non-Weenie Oath and the dessert bars at the Hiltons she usually has the seminars at. She runs them like a Baptist revival, which partially explains why a friend and I both ended up with 5 digital pianos and Roland MT-200's in our basements a month after our training, even though we'd just gone to it out of curiosity and because a January seminar in Dallas promised a respite from the winter cold....

I love Mayron's group games and I love her business acumen. I made a ton of money when I taught group and have a house full of incredible Georgian casegoods to show for it still. \:D

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#15038 - 06/10/01 09:08 PM Re: Any other message board
Janice Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 565
Loc: Newalla, Oklahoma, USA
2much2do, I still use Alfred for some students. I use it as a suppliment with PA after Level 1. Many good things are there. I like PA because it starts around middle C and some students just don't get along with starting with the left hand. A teacher just has to figure it out. I keep extra books on hand just in case we have to make a switch because I don't see having a student frustrated. I like some of the more advanced Alfred books but I l-o-v-e-Nancy Faber's pieces and would miss them. Now, I'm not telling you I really loved them at first but have great respect now.

Name dropping time---Gale K and E. L. Lancaster were both members of our local music association when I first joined about 11 years ago. They got married soon after I joined. I don't think they were with Alfred yet. I use to have lunch Gale after meetings and at festivals. (with a group) She never talked music at lunch. The last time I was with her she was dealing with a two year old. I think they have another child now. That has been many moons ago and she wouldn't remember me. Anyway, she's nice.

Someone else said this - the method doesn't make the teacher. No one should have to defend the method(s) they choose to teach.

Please, if the spelling isn't good on this overlook it. I'm tired. \:D ;\)

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#15039 - 06/11/01 06:39 AM Re: Any other message board
Jalapeņo Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 5712
Schaum isn't cranking out anything new. I occasionally get offers in the mail from them, & it's always the same stuff. They've updated the covers of some of the books, but not the contents. I must say, though, that the Schaum supplementary repertoire is good if you're looking for traditional arrangements of well-known songs.

I choose method books based on how I want to present the material, as well as for the songs they contain, the appropriateness of the illustrations for the age group I work with, & other factors.

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#15040 - 06/11/01 12:55 PM Re: Any other message board
cecilly Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 779
Loc: Illinois
I just bought the latest music tree materials and they look pretty nice. It was the new part 3 stuff. There is a core book, activity book, technic, literature, and student choice book. The only one I didn't like was the student choice. Other collections have some better things. Anyway, I thought it looked pretty good. This method seems to be getting more marketing attention (about time imo).

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#15041 - 06/11/01 03:11 PM Re: Any other message board
Jalapeņo Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 5712
I have the early-level MT books. I ordered them because they were free. I figured I'd look them over & see what I thought. I wasn't impressed. When I got the offer in the mail about the MT level 3 books, I didn't buy them.

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#15042 - 06/11/01 03:44 PM Re: Any other message board
Josh Allen Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 534
Loc: East Texas, USA
Hey...how'd ya get em free?

Josh, sitting on edge of seat (I LOVE free stuff :D), Allen

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#15043 - 06/11/01 06:32 PM Re: Any other message board
Eric Offline
Star Member

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 2325
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jalapeno:
I have the early-level MT books. I ordered them because they were free



I bet they were worth every cent! ;\)

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#15044 - 06/12/01 05:19 PM Re: Any other message board
Carole Offline
Star Member

Registered: 06/08/00
Posts: 2229
Loc: southern California
Josh, I think there was an offer in Clavier last yr. I remember Jalapeno talking about it and I found the ad and ordered too. We got several levels and cds to go along. Alot for free!

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#15045 - 06/12/01 05:31 PM Re: Any other message board
Vivace' Offline
Star Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1717
Loc: USA
May/June Clavier, P.36 Has a free "get acquainted offer" for Robert Pace.
25 solos and 22 duets in three sets each suitable for teaching any method.
_________________________
Then let us all do what is right, strive with all our might toward the unattainable, develop as fully as we can the gifts God has given us,and never stop learning." ~ Ludwig van Beethoven

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#15046 - 06/12/01 07:18 PM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
Thanks, Vivace. I actually saw the ad but didn't read closely and missed the free offer. I just sent an e-mail requesting it.
Josh, I got the free Music Tree stuff last year but only because I called about it. Warner Bros/Note Service Music simply will not leave my name on their mailing list. I called last week because somebody (either Jalapeno or John) mentioned a special Teacher's Offer over a month ago and I had received nothing. I doubt if they're offering the free Music Tree stuff again, but they promised to send me brochures of all their recent offers and said they would all still be valid. When/if I get the stuff, I'll tell you what they are offering. I asked about the new Looney Tunes books & GM disks, Music Tree - Part 3, Technic Fun, & the Dale Tucker Favorite Classics Books & CDs. They told me that they were all available for 50% off.

Cecilly,

I didn't know there were Technic, Literature, and Student Choice books for the Music Tree. Are they only for Part 3 or for the earlier levels as well?
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15047 - 06/12/01 08:48 PM Re: Any other message board
cecilly Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 779
Loc: Illinois
Rhapsody, evidently they're only for pt. 3. It looks like the other earlier books make up the early elementary level. Pt 3 is described as late ele/early intermediate. It picks up right where the older C book left off. My at a glance take on them is that they've reworked the Musical Fingers Bk 1 into the keyboard technic book. The Keyboard lit book has your basic early intermediate classical pieces from the various style periods (several selections from their lit books in the intermediate Clark series are included). I suspect that a complete revision of the Clark Lit series is taking place. This is good news to me. This series is a good one, solid as a rock, but a bit dated in it's overall look. If they continue revising all the way up through each level, it should prove to be a nice addition to the other lit series' available from other publishers. Always nice to have more to choose from.

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#15048 - 07/04/01 03:46 PM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
 Quote:
Originally posted by Josh Allen:
Hey...how'd ya get em free?

Josh, sitting on edge of seat (I LOVE free stuff :D), Allen



I finally got 2 of the 3 Piano Teacher's Advantage brochures from Warner Bros. I had to call twice and when there was no listing for the Dale Tucker Favorite Classics for Piano stuff I called for the third time and was told they apparently didn't send me the blue brochure, but that I can order any of the Tucker stuff I want for 50% off. Yeah! Anything other than the 4 Favorite Classics books with CDs that I should get?

Josh,

From the gold Fall 2000 brochure: "Music Tree Pack (Retail Value... $31.80) Yours FREE with any order! Includes: Time to Begin, Time to Begin Activities, Music Tree 1 and Music Tree 2A (The Music Tree Special offer does not count towards the six book minimum purchase requirement)."

So it isn't exactly free, but all of the items listed in the brochure with this special offer are 50% off. They include:
Technic Is Fun -- Elementary A ($1.98), Preparatory, and Books 1-5 ($3.98)
Piano Masters Series 16 different books all edited by Dale Tucker at $2.48 each
The Composer Spotlight Series 11 books at $2.98 each
and various other books from Universal Music Publishing Group, Supplementary Collections, Vienna Urtext Editions, Christmas Prevew, Ensemble Music and Dan Coates as well as Music Tree through 2B.

From the red Spring 2001 brochure: "Yours FREE with any order from this promotion:
Teacher's Guide for Time to Begin and Music Tree 1, and Teacher's Guide for Music Tree Parts 2A and 2B."

In this brochure they offer at 50% off the Music Tree 3 books as well as the earlier levels, the Looney Tunes Piano Library books with ($6.48) or without CD and MIDI disks ($2.98), Technic is Fun and Composer Spotlight Series as in the previous offer and different selections in the Universal Music Publishing Group, Urtext Editions, Supplementary Collections and Ensemble Muisc. They also offer 3 books by Dave Brubeck.

Even though these offers have expired they will continue to honor the prices for teachers. The phone number in the brochures is 1-800-628-1528 and I called 1-800-327-7643 and asked for Note Service Department. I need to get my order together before they change their mind.
_________________________
There is no cure for boring.

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#15049 - 07/06/01 09:52 PM Re: Any other message board
John Offline
Star Member

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 2448
Loc: Bellingham, WA
www.practicespot.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi

is back with a brand spanking new message board, so anyone who wants to run afoul of other teachers (esp. Australians?) should scurry there and raise Cain. It is by UBB, so it will seem like a strange deja vu. Be the first to create an alter-ego!

[ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: JB ]

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