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#15018 - 06/09/01 09:58 PM Re: Any other message board
OKMusician Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Oklahoma
I've used the HL books some over the past few years. I attended a couple of their workshops a few summers ago and tried them out. I, like JVee, thought there were gaps that I don't find in PA. You can fill the gaps with supplements though. j

I have a brother and sister now who had the HL Lesson books 1-3 from an older sister. I've used the PA Performance, Technique, and Theory books along with the HL Lesson books and they've worked very well. Book 1 with PA Primer, 2 with Lev 1 and 3 with 2A. The older child is in book 3 now and when he finishes I'll put him into the 2B Lesson book and he'll be completely in PA. They have correlated pretty well.

As for when HL came out, it was a little after PA I believe. I was using some PA when I went to the HL workshops, but they hadn't split the levels (A & B) or done the revisions yet.
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#15019 - 06/10/01 04:08 AM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
tomuch2do:

I'll list some of the message boards I have found, but mostly they are a waste of the wear and tear on your mouse to even click on the links:


So you can check around but I don't think you'll find anything nearly as worthwhile as this wonderful site. It has soooo many great features (in no particular order):
  • The posts are easy to access and you don't have to go to a separate page for each answer. Saves wear and tear on your mouse and your nerves.
  • You don't have to display your e-mail address with your post.
  • You can register under more than one Login name (I'm not suggesting this but just saying that some have used this feature).
  • THERE ARE NO ADVERTISEMENTS or POP-UP BANNERS!!! -- I really like this.
  • You can add images. One of my favorite features which Jason seems to think fits under the category of "crap." I, and many others, disagree but try to behave on Jason's threads.
  • Each registered member (or login name) has a profile page where they can list their interests, location, home page, and even attach an image. (Be sure to check out my portrait. \:D )
  • You can send any member a Private Message and can communicate with members without having to divulge your e-mail address and you get to use smilies and images. However, the censorship feature is activated for Private Messages, too. Well, you can't really send any member a Private Message -- if a member puts you on their Ignore List you are not permitted to communicate with them in this way. So far as I know, I'm only on one member's Ignore List but, if you decide to stick around, you can add me to yours if it strikes your fancy. I won't mind too much. \:\( \:\(
  • The little lightbulbs light up to show you which topics have been posted to since your last visit.
  • You can start a Topic or an Off-Topic and you're almost sure to get a response from somebody or other. It may not be related to the Topic you started, but rarely will your thread be ignored. If it is, you can simply use the thread to have a nice chat with yourself.
  • The smilies (or if you prefer, smileys)-- which are now called Instant Graemlins -- add so much and help convey the tone of what the poster is trying to get across to the other members. \:\)
  • You can bold or italicize or a combination of the two.
  • If you start a Topic you can be sent e-mail notification when you get a response so you don't have to stayed glued to your computer screen.
  • The site keeps track of the number of posts you have made. While this initially irked Lisa, it does help give others a clue as to how often they can expect a comment from another member. Of course, when members have more than one registered name and # then it can be misleading.
  • You can stroll through the Archives and read of past fun \:D and past horrors. The Archives are useful if you are new or want to find some reference you can't quite remember. It also helps to be able to refer someone there when you don't want to post on the same question that has been covered well in the past.
  • This forum has such pretty colors. They've improved recently but have always been relatively easy to read without lots of glaring white or dark murky colors that can cause eye strain. By alternating the background colors of the posts, it is easy to distinguish one post from another.
  • Last (not really but my fingers are tired) but not least, even though this site is sponsored by the Fabers and many people who post here are devoted to the method, you can use any method you like and post that you do without fear of being locked in a dungeon. Other members may disagree with your choice but the Powers That Be will never take offense and retaliate.


It's your decision and you are welcome if you decide to stay. But be advised, you'd better not be unkind to Eric or Lisa or JVee since that will upset me (and many others) and as John and Josh have pointed out more than once, I can be very cruel. Just thought I should let you know this up front. ;\)

[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Rhapsody ]
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#15020 - 06/10/01 05:52 AM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
One more thing (and this one is very good)
  • YOU CAN EDIT YOUR POSTS!
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#15021 - 06/10/01 06:43 AM Re: Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
I'm sorry if many of you have taken my desire to find other message boards as a "cut" to this board. Of all the boards I've been to, this by far has the best content for lots of different subjects and I will continue to read them.

What I am looking for is another board that will help me with the method that I am using, helping me to get better with it. I tried the PA with my students and the response was very cold (that doesn't mean I will not try it again). So I am looking for encouragement and help in the road that I am traveling, which just doesn't happen to be the PA board.

Though my students did respond to the PA books pre-time, chordtime etc. for supplemental books, more than any other, so we are using those.

I know this board is sponsored by PA and we are blessed that they did this, I just don't think I'm going to get the guidance I'm looking for in my method since it's not PA, on this board.

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#15022 - 06/10/01 07:20 AM Re: Any other message board
Eric Offline
Star Member

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 2325
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by tomuch2do:

I just don't think I'm going to get the guidance I'm looking for in my method since it's not PA, on this board.


Tell ya what, why don't you give this a try: Under TEACHING ISSUES, start a new topic that states the name of your method. In your post, make it clear that you don't want to discuss your method's merits and shortcomings, and you don't want to compare it to PA ~ and then, in the positive, state what you DO want to hear. For example:

GLOVER TEACHERS

Hi. I teach out of Glover and have found it to be highly successful. Without getting into a discussion of its faults or comparing it to other methods, I would really like to hear from other Glover Teachers who have teaching ideas that would work in that series. Thanks for the help.

I suspect you'll meet many like-minded teachers. Hope you give it a try!

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#15023 - 06/10/01 09:36 AM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
I'll overcome my extreme timidity and fear of speaking up and just ask plainly: What method do you use that you are so afraid of being criticized for? You did mention in one post that you use Music for Little Mozarts with a few young students but you said in another post that you have about 50 students. What do you use with most of them?
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#15024 - 06/10/01 10:48 AM Re: Any other message board
OKMusician Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Oklahoma
tomuch2do, many of us, even if we use PA for the most part now (and not all of us do, even frequent posters), have used other methods in the past or continue to use them in addition to PA. Is that a run-on sentence or what???? Most of us would be glad to help you and give you suggestions of things that worked for us while using those methods. There are a few die-hards who will try to convice you to "convert", but just ignore them if you're not interested!!

I find that most of the teachers who post on the board are genuinely interested in helping one another in the midst of all the silliness. Lots of us have very different methods of teaching, beliefs, lifestyles, etc., but we all have a common goal of turning students on to music and piano. So be brave, step out, we won't bite!!! (maybe some of us will growl a little, but nothing serious)


[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: OKMusician ]
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#15025 - 06/10/01 01:10 PM Re: Any other message board
tomuch2do Offline
Regular Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 97
Loc: WI
I teach almost exclusively Alfred. I have been through several of their seminars and have talk at length with E.L. Lancaster and his wife Gail.

My young students who are unable to read work through at least the first 2-3 levels of Music for Little Mozarts.

My beginning students who are third grade and under begin in Prep Course. And my others begin with Piano Library 1A. All my teenagers and adults work through the adult series.

I use the majority of their supplemental books as well. My Piano Library students have Ear Training, sight reading, theory, notespelling and composition books to help with the reading of notes.

I also have each student purchase a music writing book and they are to write their own songs, which helps them with note recognition.

I am in no way ashamed of the method I use. I have 46 students right now and am beginning to teach group lessons to another 35 with the beginning of the summer.

All have been working in the Alfred series and all the parents are thrilled and the majority of the kids practice.

No method is going to make a kid practice that just doesn't want to learn to play the piano.

I do use the PA supplemental books as additional music for the kids, I encourage them to use them, the songs are fun and easy to learn and the kids love having more they can play in front of others.

I feel comfortable teaching with Alfred, that gets passed onto my students which makes them comfortable, then, god-willing, makes them into better piano players.

I still maintain though, it's the teacher and students that makes a piano player, not the method!

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#15026 - 06/10/01 01:47 PM Re: Any other message board
OKMusician Offline
Mainstay Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Oklahoma
tomuch2do, I don't think you have to apologize for using Alfred. I used it for over 10 years almost exclusively and my students were very successful. I still use lots of their supplements and tons of their sheet music. They have some very good composers in their house! I still have some of my kids in Alfred if their older brothers or sisters used it and they already have the books or if they come from another teacher already using them.

I use MFLM with my 4-5 year olds and had started putting nearly everyone in the Prep books except for 12 & up while I was still using it a lot. I feel the music is a little more fun and we'd just move through them at a faster pace. I still use Level 6 after my kids finish PA Level 5 until the Fabers come out with theirs. I have also used the Alfred Adult with great success over the years.

I was slow to change to PA because I also like Alfred, but it just gradually started winning me over. There were little things I noticed about the books and the students who were in them that encouraged me to use them more and more. I had used the Pretime-Bigtime supplements for quite some time too.

I'm glad you've decided to stick around. Don't let the PA I'S scare you off--they aren't cruel, just dedicated believers!!!


[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: OKMusician ]
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#15027 - 06/10/01 02:06 PM Re: Any other message board
Rhapsody Offline
Star Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 2329
ToMuch2Do,

Whew! I was afraid you might be using only Mayron Cole or The Pointer Method and then I would have really had to object. :p :P

But unlike many of the members of this board, I like Alfred, use it and think the a lot of the music is pretty good. I also use PA & Noona, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses. I think Alfred is better at teaching coordination between the hands at an earlier level than either PA or Noona but that both PA and Noona are a little better at helping the student move around the keyboard earlier. It's a matter of what skills the authors think should come first.

The Alfred authors believe that all the notes within the 5-finger position (they begin with C-position) and intervals up to a fifth should be learned before having the student move to the next position (for them it's G-position). They feel that this gives the student a sense of security. Some criticize that they become too locked in one position and then have trouble moving out of it. I think that is much more a problem with Bastien than Alfred.

Do you use always use the Recital books? I like those because they have challenging pieces that are well within reach of most students but do take more effort. One of my criticisms of the PA and Noona is that they don't offer enough of these reasonable challenges early enough and students can have such an easy time with the pieces that when (and this has to happen eventually) they get to pieces that require more effort on their part, they aren't really prepared because they had begun to think it was always going to be so easy. Some students may be happier in the beginning with most of their music being easy, but some may feel that it simply isn't stimulating enough even though they are enjoying the music.

Alfred has so many books at the first 4 levels that you simply can't use them all. They say that their Lesson, Theory and Recital books are the 3 essential ones, but the theory is explained well enough in the Lesson book most of the time that if I had to limit the books to 3 I would replace the theory with the Technic Book. Alfred's Technic Books really aid in coordination between the hands and help prepare the student for more difficult music ahead. The PA Technique & Artistry Books are better at teaching artistry and expression since that is where their emphasis lies. They are very different from one another and I like to use both.

The last time I asked my favorite music dealer, Patti Music, Alfred is still the largest selling method in the world. This is an indication that it must be doing something right. Of course, in many areas of this country, Piano Adventures is catching up. \:D I think Bastien may still actually be second, but that simply has to change soon.
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